- Suddenly hyperspace tracking is available and this is never explained other than 'oh new technology.' Lazy writing. (A throw away easter egg reference in Rogue One doesn't count.)
- The main crisis of the film is an 18 hour long spaceship chase at slow speed, during which time the empire never scrambles any fighters to simply kill the rebels, which it is unbelievable to think their largest ship does not have.
- Leia, with no known training or experience, uses the 'force' as a Deux Ex Machina to save her life despite no establishment at any point in the series that such a thing is even possible with the force. Her survival goes on to ultimately serve no narrative purpose.
- Purple hair lady, for no good reason at all, decides to keep her plans a secret from her people, even when the plan is not dependent on secrecy and even when it is evident that the secrecy will lead to mutiny.
- Maz, an expert in the criminal underground, tells Finn that there is absolutely only one person in the entire galaxy who could crack the security. When they fail to secure this person, they are coincidentally placed in a jail cell with, I guess, the only other only person in the entire galaxy who has those exact same skills.
- Finn and token girl are to be executed surrounded by hundreds of troopers, when suddenly the launch bay they're in is exploded. With massive casualties and destruction every human has been either killed or thrown to another place entirely, except for some reason Finn and token girl.
- Purple hair lady uses the hyperspace jump to kamikaze her large ship into the empire's largest ship, slicing it nearly in half. Even with the cost of ships being what they are, if this genuinely works, how is this style of kamikaze large object bombing not used more frequently? Even at its enormous cost, it could be automated and used to destroy all kinds of massive structures. You could have started with hyperspacing those bombing ships from the beginning.
- Luke's use of the force to astral project to salt planet is weird, since it clearly was not an astral projection as it touched and passed on an entirely physical object to Leia. If the force is capable of this level of magic, which is an absolutely crazy extension of its power even in the collateral books and comics, this still would have been much more acceptable if at some point while training Rey, Luke used a small minor form of it and Rey says 'I didn't know the force could do that!' and grumpy Luke says 'There's a lot you don't know about the force.' Not hard.
- It is now evident that the film's title was clearly always a cheap marketing ploy used to superficially drive interest. No other star wars title has done this, it is cheap and unearned.
- The same goes for the social media hype generated around Rey's lineage. I have no problem with her parents not being important but the way the actors and directors teased about how significant of a reveal it would be is, again, cheap and untrue.
- We are supposed to believe that Luke instantly jumped to 'Better kill my nephew' even for a brief moment? This man's crowning achievement in his rise to jedi master was the moment he decided he would not kill a dictatorial mass murderer because he knew there was even a sliver of good in him! And now he's going to kill a child being trained because he's turning to the dark side? Makes no sense.
- Supreme leader Snoke, an amazingly powerful Sith with all kinds of new jedi tricks, was killed by being tricked by a man whose mind he could read. Also no back story ever being given him, he becomes a useless character whose existence is nearly unbelievable based on previously established Sith practices.
- Luke's death serves no narrative purpose.
- Rey's trip to the 'dark hole' on the island is meant to be reminiscent of Luke's trip to the dark cave, but also serves no narrative purpose.
- This movie begins immediately after the previous movie ends. Rey appears to spend multiple days on the planet with Luke then travels to the salt planet. But for the people on the spaceship, only 18 hours passes. The difference in time passage cannot be reconciled.
What more can be said? Some of these could have caveats and minor possible reasoning, but they are all indicative of poor writing or poor filmmaking from a company and individuals who have no excuse for so fully abandoning the most basic principles of their art to coast on the popularity of a franchise they purchased.
In the interest of fairness, here are things that, more subjectively, were pretty awesome:
- Rey and Kylo's battle royale with the scarlet guards was pretty great. The kung fu choreography wasn't the best but it made great use of cool trick moments, the most excellent of which was the thrown lightsaber that was switched on and off to put a hole through the one guard
- Mark Hamill, Adam Driver, Daisy Ridley, and whoever playes Poe Dameron all did a fantastic acting job, so they were always enjoyable to watch.
- With what I said above, I don't mind Rey's parents being of no significance and I like the idea that it pushes: New powerful jedi are constantly being born and will always be around. Maybe that means there's a school of sith somewhere we don't know about yet? Oooooooh.
- Not everyone liked the little bird creatures, but I did. Cute.
Hmm...pretty fair criticism; but I do have to point out you claimed a plot hole where there wasn't one:
ReplyDelete> passed on an entirely physical object to Leia.
The object he passed on disappeared after he did. It wasn't real either. It was easy to miss, but as I recall Leia dropped it in the base, Kylo picked it up after fighting Luke and entering but it disappeared from his hand.
I don't think the "Astral Projection" aspect feels like a cheat because it was established that even Jedi who are dead can still have _some_ influence, even if not as strongly (e.g. Obi-Wan in the original Trilogy, Yoda in this movie.)
If a powerful Jedi can do it a little bit from beyond the pale of death, it makes sense that they could do a more convincing variant while still alive...my assumption was that the strain of it was *why* Luke died/disappeared into the Force.
I will concede my mistake on the dice, but I don't agree with the logic that a living jedi should be able to do anything a dead jedi can do or more. I mean, they're force ghosts, freedom from physical restraint is kind of the point.
DeleteActually, regarding the "Mind Reading" plot hole, that could also make a lot of sense:
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, Snoke was likely concentrating most of his force power on Rey; even though he's substantially less powerful than he is, she's still powerful enough and able/willing to react in a split second if she gets an opening.
Just because you're using the force doesn't mean you're good at multitasking; (Darth Vader being surprised by the Millennium Falcon in Episode IV).
Snoke could have been paying enough attention just to tell that Kyo was about to kill and was overconfident in his control of the situation; anyways, if Force users can't be distracted then I'd wonder how any of them could ever get hit by a lightsaber; no matter how fast/powerful your opponent is, if you can read their moves like a book it shouldn't take too much effort to evade them.
The key here is 'could also.' I could conceivably come up with an explanation for most of these, but the ability to extend our mind to conceivably explain a logical reason for a story point does not excuse a story. It is the story teller's job to present an expectable reality and, when not expectable, to give a reason for the sudden surprise. Otherwise it's just throwing spaghetti at a wall.
Delete1) Most sci-fi/fantasy writers would consider an Easter egg reference in one movie teasing a new technology in another movie to be good world building (Brandon Sanderson does this in his Cosmere books). It's better than the exchange between Spock and Scotty in Star Trek IV:
ReplyDeleteScotty: "A bird of prey cannot fire when she's cloaked."
Spock: "All things being equal Mister Scott, I would agree. However, all things are not equal. This one can."
Nope, a throw away computer line on a computer screen from a tangentially related film does not excuse a deus ex machina. If the reference cannot be remembered by a normal viewer and must be researched and discovered, it does not excuse the point.
DeleteThat's not what deus ex machina means.
DeleteWell technically that kamikaze hyperspace ram was the deus ex machina, but I know what he means. He means that the whole "thing" where they could even be tracked was artificially contrived out of magic dust - Johnson almost certainly had the throwaway reference added to excuse his bad writing
Delete2) In Ep. IV when Obi Wan sees a Tie fighter he says "A fighter that size couldn't get this deep into space on its own." Tie fighters have a short range and can't get too far from their base. They specifically said at the beginning of the chase in TLJ that the resistance ships are staying just staying out of range of the Tie fighters. They even showed a graphic on one of their bridge displays with a big green circle to illustrate this point.
ReplyDeleteHalf yes, you're right that was done and I had forgotten about it. That the largest ship in the imperial armada would have NO RECOURSE against a ship maintaining medium range for 18 hours is a little unthinkable though. Maybe Hux didn't even want to bother and enjoyed the slow chase, but that was not said, and Hux is a whole other issue.
DeleteThe recourse was that they would wear down the resistance ships and then shoot them when they fell into range, and that's exactly what they did.
Delete3) In ESB when Luke wakes up in the ice cave he uses the force to pull his lightsaber towards him, even though it never showed him being trained to do so. When Leia wakes up a few seconds after being blasted out into space she uses the force to pull herself the ship in zero G. It's not that diffirent. Also, Leia finds out she's force sensitive at the end of RotJ, thirty years before the events of this movie. It's not a big stretch to think that during that time her brother would have taught her a few jedi tricks before he skipped town, especially when he was really into teaching others the force (before things got bad with Kylo, that is).
ReplyDelete4) Purple haired lady didn't tell Poe the plan, because Poe had just been demoted for disobeying orders that got a bunch of resistance fighter pilots killed. She didn't tell Poe the plan because she didn't think Poe was trustworthy.
5) Maz said there was only one person with those skills that she trusts. With so much scum and villainy in the galaxy, you'd think code breaking would be a valuable skill to have. So it would make sense that a lot more people can do it. Finn just found someone else with those skills who Maz obviously didn't trust.
6) At least they didn't survive by hiding in a refrigerator.
3) Disagree, that's QUITE a stretch. I'm no force expert, but after being exploded by a missile into space going into a fugue state and pulling yourself back to the ship as the water in your body literally forms into ice on your skin... that's not a 'few tricks.' Possibly taught? Yes, but leaving the audience to assume is lazy.
Delete4) Nope, don't buy that the Rebel's most trusted and heroic spy and pilot doesn't even get told the plan when it is very important everyone play along, even if he did just get demoted for being cocky
5) Another stretch, obviously an explanation could be conceived of for nearly every movie inconsistency of all time. This does not make them good or excusable.
3) It's not lazy writing. The pieces are all there for anyone who wants to put them together. I'm honestly surprised this moment got so much backlash. I thought it was a great badass moment for Leia to show off her force powers, and show that she's not so easy to kill.
Delete4) He got demoted for disobeying orders that got a lot of people killed. He definitely lost trust points. Especially for someone who never met him before.
5) It doesn't sound like you're satisfied with a very simple explanation I gave. All I can say is a quote from bestselling author Tom Clancy: "the difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense."
These are not "simple" explanations. These are super stretched suppositions with zero evidence other than "assumption" to back them up. It is in fact lazy writing, as GOOD writing is to establish things and THEN use them. You don't use them with no explanation and leave people to just make up their own.
DeleteIts not even established that a Jedi master could do such a thing and Abrams actually established that Leia chose not to become a jedi - sooooo how is making up some unseen super jedi training out of thin air logical?
7) Because "traveling to hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy!" Now that I think about it, the rebels could have used this tactic to blow up the first death star, but they didn't have any big ships to use because they all got blown up during the battle in Rogue One.
ReplyDelete8) What Kent said above. Also, when Luke handed the dice to Leia he was tipping her off that he wasn't really there, since she would have been able to sense that those dice weren't real.
9) Every single title to every single movie ever made is a marketing ploy. Writers and producers design them to pique interest in a potential audience. I don't think this one is cheap though, just intentionally ambiguous, but you get why it's called TLJ during what Luke says to Kylo before he disappears, then it takes on a deeper meaning when you see the kid with the broom. It's got layers.
10) It was the anti plot twist of ESB. It pulls the rug out from under you because we've been trained to expect that special people, like Rey, have special parents (eg. Luke, Harry Potter, Orlando Bloom in POTC, Spider-Man, Iron Man, Star Lord, Aragorn, Superman etc.). With that context the twist doesn't seem satisfying when revealed, but when they show the kid with the broom at the end it becomes really satisfying, and I think you get why.
8) As above
Delete9) Now I feel like you're just being contrary to be contrary. There's an enormous difference between a title that describes the film and one that CLEARLY suggests a completely opposite thing from what will happen during the film. In 'Return of the Jedi' the Jedi Return. In 'Attack of the Clones' the clones attack. In 'The Last Jedi' there's at least two jedi, neither of which are the last, and a central theme of the movie is without sacred texts or temples that will continue to be true
10) No problem with what you're saying, but it has nothing to do with what I'm saying. It is a good plot device that I liked, but the way it was hyped in social media ahead of time was deceptive in a way that's not fun, it's a let down. To suggest you found a clever tie to your existing fiction then say 'nope just drew this character up brand new' is not good.
9) The word Jedi is used as both singular and plural (like samurai). No one says "look at all those Jedis". So the title The Last Jedi can refer to two or more people and still be correct.
DeleteAlso, I'm not trying to be contrary just to be contrary. Your thesis to this post is that these 15 bullet points make TLJ a bad film. I would argue that TLJ is a challenging film, but that doesn't make it a bad film. For me TLJ was more engaging than any other SW movie before it. So I'm trying to challenge your assertions, to make you look deeper to see that a lot of the things that were written off as lazy writing are actually more carefully constructed, and to say the movie is bad because of lazy writing is entirely untrue.
10) Point taken. Although it seems like the hype on social media about Rey's parents was more from the fans rather than the production's own advertising campaign. In a few years once the fan uproar has died down, and depending on where the story goes from here, it might not be seen as a reason this is a "bad" movie. Who knows. I'm just speculating now.
11) Yes, and it was for a brief moment, but the damage was already done by the momentary slip up. In the OT Luke constantly had to choose the light side over the dark, even though the dark side was very seductive. Although he had a major triumph over the dark side in ROTJ there is no reason to think he wasn't still tempted by the dark side through out the rest of his life, just like an alcoholic who's been sober for twenty years.
ReplyDelete12) Aaaaaaand he's still a mystery. It's interesting that even though he was beat for beat reading Kylo's mind, he was misinterpreting what he was reading. This series is full of people who misinterpret things they see with the force ("Annie, the chosen one!" "I'm not going to let you die in childbirth, Padme!" "That boy is our last hope." "I have foreseen it."). Different points of view, and all that. Since his death was so unexpected I'm actually really curious where they take the story from here. The idea of the unknown from this point onward excites me more than if Snoke was just a Palpatine clone. But that's just my opinion. Unknown quantities in stories are always more fun than known quantities. Even though we didn't know why he was so wrinkly, and why he has that scar on his head, Snoke was still a known quantity in that he was the big bad supreme leader of evil. Kylo Ren, on the other hand, has now shown himself to be an unknown quantity. And I think that's really exciting.
13) Luke wanted to die. He even said "I came to this island to die." But he was also a very conflicted man and was battling inner demons. By confronting Kylo Ren, he confronted his demons and was able to die in peace, which was what he wanted all along. He accomplished his goal, the narrative purpose was fulfilled. Also, as a side note, Mark Hamill hasn't shaved yet. I take that as a sign that we haven't seen the last of Luke Skywalker, but I could be wrong.
14) The cave is how she came to terms with the fact that her parents weren't special, and that it was just her, before Kylo spelled it out. Notice how that scene didn't play out like this:
Kylo: "Rey, your parents were nobodies."
Rey: "NOOOOO! That's not true!"
That's because she already figured it out in the cave.
15) She spent as much time with Luke as Luke spent with Yoda. And Luke got more done.
I also really liked the little bird creatures.
11) A tiny slip up is not contemplating murdering someone in cold blood, nor is that a minor temptation from the dark side. I think my point holds. He's in sync enough to astral project himself across the galaxy, he's in sync enough to not consider murdering his nephew in cold blood.
Delete12) It was actually established in an interview with Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams that Snoke was written off just because Rian Johnson didn't know what to do with him. It is confessed lazy writing. He can connect minds from across the universe. Kylo can't even hold back a tantrum. Not believable Kylo had the presence of mind to trick him. Again, conceivably possible to explain away, but stretches credulity and that's not our job as the viewer.
13) If he survived and lived twenty years to tell Kylo that there would be other Jedi and then disappear... I mean that's pretty much nothing. Kylo would have known that anyway. If he wanted a nanabooboo moment and commit suicide in the process... well I guess that does sound like the Luke we met on Tattooine, but not the one that beat Vader.
14) Nope, it is the definition of narratively pointless. The scene could have played out the exact same way, he says you've figured out, she cries and says she guesses she's always known. You get rid of the scene in the cave, you miss nothing.
15) Point is not how much time she spent with Luke. Point is she spent at least 3 days with Luke, but this happened in the same time frame the ship only had 18 hours, with a little wiggle room. It would take huge theoretical jumps to reconcile the timelines, and those, again, are not the viewer's job.
Slip up probably wasn't the right choice of words on my point. But my point was the alcoholic metaphor. Luke's relationship with the dark side of the force is more like a recovering alcoholic's relationship to booze. And that is what got him into trouble.
Delete12) I didn't see that interview with Rian Johnson. Killing off characters that you don't know what to do with isn't necessarily lazy writing. If you disagree with me, I would refer you to Stephen King's book about writing called On Writing. And Kylo having anger issues, and also being cunning are not mutually exclusive attributes to have. It makes the character more interesting.
13) Luke didn't commit suicide. He projected himself onto the other planet to distract Kylo to buy the rebels time to get away. Helping his friends one last time, and confronting Kylo one last time put his soul at ease, then the exertion from pulling off his projection was too much for him, and he passed. Watch Luke's face during that moment, and you'll see it's all there.
14) I'll also add that that scene created tension, which is never narratively pointless. And did you think that Rey wouldn't go into that cave once she found out about it?
15) Eh, that planet could have had 6 hour day cycles, instead of 24. Or Rey could have been there a couple of days already by the time the resistance got into their running battle with the first order. Those are two explanations I described in one sentence each, so they're not huge theoretical jumps. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter, and in any other movie, like Empire Strikes Back, something like this would not be a qualifier as a bad movie.